Talk:Mary, mother of Jesus

Mistake in 'In Islam' section

The article currently says that Mary is known as, among other things, "mother of Isa (عيسى بن مريم)." However, the Arabic translation we give here means "Jesus son of Mary", an epithet of Jesus, rather than "mother of Isa", which I believe would be Umm Isa, ام عیسی - but ideally someone with knowledge of Arab Christianity would double check the new version. It is definitely incorrect as it is at the moment, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9CCE:E501:8412:6CE2:B519:17E2 (talk) 09:15, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Mary had other children

“Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭6‬:‭3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ https://bible.com/bible/114/mrk.6.3.NKJV 41.164.33.145 (talk) 04:25, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

That is WP:POV and WP:OR. Bettering the Wiki (talk) 06:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

There's been a lot of discussion of this over the centuries. It is usually taken to mean cousins or wider kin (many cultures are still rather less precise in using kinship terms) and/or other children of Joseph by an earlier marriage. See Holy Kinship. The Perpetual Virginity of Mary rules out Mary having other children for many denominations. Johnbod (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I tried to add these other children, but was reverted and asked to discuss that here. Since there is/was already a discussion, this hint was kind of missleading. Anyhow, I restart thethreat and ask whether there are any reasons NOT to include the bible-mentioned children.Nillurcheier (talk) 09:01, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

If we're using the Bible as our source here—from my understanding many Christians interpret the passages in Matthew and Mark in line with the perpetual virginity of Mary, i.e. that they are Joseph's children from another marriage. Understanding that stepchildren are still children, I understand it to be an "infobox isn't for this level of nuance" issue. Infoboxes are meant to be plain summaries of an article, not packed to the gills with controversies and footnotes. Remsense留 12:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there was a discussion already so nothing misleading about that revert... and as you can see from the comments above yours, there was not remotely a consensus in the discussion that we should assert Mary as having other children. As Johnbod says, the "brothers" and "sisters" attributed to Jesus in the bible are typically thought of as cousins or wider family, and to read anything else into it would be WP:OR and/or WP:FRINGE.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

This is incorrect. Biblical scholars all agree James was brother of Jesus. You are espousing specifically Catholic dogma designed to maintain the perpetual virginity of Mary in their millenia of idolatry. Laughable that anyone should presume to enforce dogma from one or any Christian denomination in an article like this. Any "debate" can be a section in the article describing why some do or do not ascribe. Of course, that would be a reasonable solution. Hardly the norm on Wikipedia where pseudo-intellectual experts expound endlessly and recruit all their little Wiki friends to back them in the argument. Further, it is not even agreed by those who believe in facts over Catholic dogma that she was a virgin. This was quite likely a mistranslation (possibly with malice and forethought to conform to what became Catholic dogma). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.137.20.57 (talk) 20:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

"Biblical scholars all agree James was brother of Jesus." One of them. We have a group article about the Brothers of Jesus:James, Joses (a form of Joseph), Simon, and Jude. Sisters of Jesus are briefly mentioned , but none is actually named in the canonical gospels. Dimadick (talk) 22:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2023

Change the sentence "Other Protestant views on Mary vary, with some holding her to have considerably lesser status." to "Other Protestant views on Mary vary, with some holding her to have lesser status." The word considerably should be removed because all Christian traditions revere Mary to some degree. Outside of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and Methodism, all of which are mentioned in the article, what remains as "Other protestants" are Pentecostals and different Baptist/anabaptist varieties. Thus, the word considerably is an overstatement. Rbrown-wiki (talk) 05:03, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done, thanks, a good suggestion and well-written reasoning, and also seemed undue use of an editorial word in Wikipedia's voice. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:11, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2024

The infobox image, while potentially interesting to some (as per the caption, it is possibly the oldest surviving icon of Mary), it is visually quite ugly. I request that we use a different image, such as https://www.qudswiki.org/?query=File:Lusenberg-Virgin.jpg (which is used on several other pages regarding Mary).

I don't have much experience writing alt-texts, but here's what I would write:

A sculpture of a woman wearing blue, gold and white, standing in front of a sunburst with her hands folded. Beneath her feet are a serpent and a crescent moon. At the bottom is a label reading "Tota Pulchra est Maria," or "Mary is all beuatiful." That might be a bit too long, I'm not sure what the guidelines for alt-texts are. If needed, we can always cut out the second sentence.

For the image caption:

Virgo by Josef Moroder-Lusenberg

This is the same caption used on other uses of this image, so I assume it would be fine.

I've never submitted an edit request before, so please let me know if I've done something wrong! 😀 2601:602:8800:98B:BDD4:A380:EDD2:1802 (talk) 06:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

See the archive, for example [1] – there has been a quite voluminous debate on this, and the image used is the result of a consensus.--Medusahead (talk) 11:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Many apologies. I didn't check thoroughly enough. 2601:602:8800:98B:1A9:43EE:B1AD:BAA8 (talk) 05:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

Please add that Mary was of Levite descent from her mother side which makes Jesus from the house of Levite on his mother side and house of Judah on Joseph's side. Metrixexpress (talk) 07:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Irltoad (talk) 08:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Literally interpreted, the Bible says nothing about Mary's genealogy. There are two different genealogies of Joseph, but no genealogy of Mary. Nothing about her being of Levite ancestry (though, similar to what's argued at [2], all Israelites at that time were of Levite ancestry). tgeorgescu (talk) 16:34, 7 April 2024 (UTC)