Talk:Rashidun Caliphate

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invasion of ibrean panuselia[edit]

Muslim conquered the spain + portugal in 711 A.D, but in 654 A.D they invaded it for first time by the orders of Caliph Uthman, in 655 when the agitation against uthman grew muslim armies were unable to go further and withdrawl from there outposts, thus it was a only short occupation of the coastal region of Andulus in spain. Thats it, some user here messed up the article because of the same issue so i have explained it now there should be no confussion.

Mohammad Adil 09:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Visigoths conquered Byzantine territory of Spania along the southern coast of Iberia. There are no Visigothic records of the Visigoths encountering Muslim outposts on Iberia's southern coast; which one would expect if they were there when the Visigoths took over - the Visigothic kingdom, especially in its later phases, is well documented. Nor have any archaeological remains been found of such sites. Perhaps the references are to shortlived outposts that were abandoned before the Visigoths took over "Spania" or perhaps these incursions never got beyond being anything more than exploratory raids. After all, the Arab records on this are vague and limited.

Actually these were not whole scale invasions, they were what we can more accurately call footholds on ibrean coast lines in 655, before starting some serious actions inland, Muslims abandon those outposts along with coast line of north-western Africa with the start of civil war one year later in 656.

الله أكبرMohammad Adil 16:33, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan as the 5th Sunni caliph[edit]

From my understanding, Sunnis consider there to be 5 rashidun caliphs, not 4. This article doesnt mention the 6 month reign of Hassan bin Ali, before handing over power to Muawiya. Surely this is a key piece of information that needs to be added?

All the bes5 86.5.202.27 (talk) 21:33, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the section above, and Hasan ibn Ali#Sunni Islam for a short paragraph on fifth-rashid-caliph hypotheses (others apart from Hasan ibn Ali were also considered for this, such as Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz) based on a paper by Christopher Melchert.

My understanding is that traditionally only the first four caliphs are universally and canonically regarded by Sunnis as rashidun ("rightly-guided", understood as a religious rather than a historiographical concept, which unhelpfully is covered in a different WP article), but that in the 20th/21th centuries a limited amount of pan-islamist inspired Muslim religious scholars such as Ali al-Sallabi have picked up on suggestions found in the medieval literature that Hasan ibn Ali may also be regarded as rightly-guided (rashid). Unfortunately, no one has come up yet with a good secondary source about these modern developments, without which we can't write anything about it in our articles (see WP:SECONDARY).

Please do note though that the mainstream Sunni view has always been that only the first four caliphs were rightly-guided/rashid, and that this religious concept has to be distinguished in any case from the historiographical use of the term "Rashidun Caliphate" (the subject of this article), which among modern secular historians exclusively refers to the first four caliphs. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 17:14, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

Expansionofthecenturies, this is a talk page. Please use it to discuss your proposals and solicit consensus, instead of repeatedly making unsourced and unexplained changes to the article. Please also see the previous discussions above. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 20:44, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do Not Edit War without consensus[edit]

User:Abdullah Hill Mahin Do Not Edit War by adding Images without consensus, As you are now Edit Warring Over this page. Untamed1910 (talk) 02:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Flag[edit]

Hello, before anyone who wants to remove the flag. Let me explain, in the Fictionised flag of the Rashidun Caliphate, it is mentioned that people said it would've been the same flag as Muhammad which is black as seen in the Conquest of Mecca. Syazwi Irfan (talk) 08:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the what? Either way, any claims about a flag need to be supported explicitly by reliable sources. R Prazeres (talk) 09:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to Ibn Abbas, he said that the Muhammad's standard (Raya) was black and his banner (Liwa) white. Syazwi Irfan (talk) 09:43, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Syazwi Irfan, Wikipedia is based on what is explicitly said by reliable (and secondary) sources. The source you cited was not one of those. (Please also look at original research policy, which is relevant here.) I doubt that there is clear support in reliable sources for identifying something like an official flag of the Rashidun caliphs, but if there is, I recommend you present the sources here first so that we can verify them. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 17:17, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Map[edit]

I've noticed that neither Wario2's map added here nor the previous map ([1], [2]) reference any sources. As with other content, the article should use a map based on reliable sources. The new map goes a step further by introducing additional WP:OR in the form of provincial borders and an alleged banner (which has been repeatedly removed from the infobox in the past), so I'm reverting to the former map, even if the latter remains ultimately unsourced as well.

I had a quick look through Category:Maps of the Rashidun Caliphate but I haven't found a map that's a clear improvement. One reliable source that could be used as basis for a new map is Sluglett & Currie 2014 (which is accessible on archive.org here and maybe visible on Google Books preview), which has a relevant map of the period (#3, pp. 16-17). Another potential source is Ruthven & Nanji 2004 (pp. 28-29). There are a couple of other scholarly historical atlases that illustrate this as well, but I don't think they're as easily accessible (e.g. An Historical Atlas of Islam by Hugh Kennedy, 2002). R Prazeres (talk) 18:02, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]