User talk:M.Bitton

Congratulations from WP:STiki!

		The Gold STiki Barnstar of Merit
		Congratulations, M.Bitton! You're receiving this barnstar of merit because you recently crossed the 25,000 classification threshold using STiki. We thank you both for your contributions to Wikipedia at-large and your use of the tool. We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (talk) 14:40, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Hi, because of lack of time, i was not able to complete the article yesterday, thank you very much for taking the time to explain me how to use the Harv style and for completing (and correcting my mistakes) my edits at Medo-Babylonian conquest of the Assyrian Empire. Cheers. ---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@Wikaviani: Thanks! Glad I could help. M.Bitton (talk) 23:47, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	It’s always great to see more people fighting vandalism. Have a star! Jeb3Talk at me hereWhat I've Done 23:41, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jebcubed: Thank you so much for your encouragement. M.Bitton (talk) 23:57, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

I see that you check recent edits for appropriateness. I clicked through to see a set of the reversions that you had made for rejected submissions, and I agreed with all of what I saw you had done. It seemed apparent to me through the decisions you made and the comments that you left that you were giving human attention to the decisions you made rather than over-relying on tools and automation. Thanks for that, and thanks especially for the notes you leave. You are doing good review. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:39, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
	For your excellent job with creating the administrative maps of Albania! Ahmet Q. (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

@Ahmet Q.: Thank you so much for your feedback. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Another barnstar for you!

		The Original Barnstar
		For answering a lot of edit requests and helping to keep the backlog at bay. For a while, I was taking care of that on my own, and it feels nice to see someone else get to it first every now and then! Actualcpscm (talk) 17:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Actualcpscm: thank you very much for the encouragement and for tackling those time consuming edit requests that tend to be pushed to the back of the queue. Keep up the great work! Best, M.Bitton (talk) 22:39, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for your incredible work on the Horn of Africa relief map :)

		The Original Barnstar
		Here's a barnstar for your incredible work on the Horn of Africa relief map! Really appreciate the effort you put into it :) KluskaSlaska (talk) 16:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, on a related note, I would love to do some more map work once I have more time in late summer. Do you have any good guides on how to get started on maps for Wikipedia? :) KluskaSlaska (talk) 16:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@KluskaSlaska: Thank you so much for your feedback. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any good guides that would help you. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed in myself for not giving this to you sooner! You have been a great help creating maps for many articles, don't stop doing what you do! – Treetoes023 (talk) 22:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

@Treetoes023: Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 12:01, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

trying not to bludgeon the discussion more than I already did

Naturally I don't mind. Questions are good. Repeated wrong answers are bad. I would have expected a Frenchman to make that a mistake because nom=noun in that language. For an American to claim that "chair" is a name because that is what we call the thing is ... proof they don't teach grammar there if you ask me. Anyway. We should ping some people into the RfM from Project Algeria and Project Linguistics I suspect. Any other interested parties? Is there a MoS Project? Let's just not ping ppl more than once

It's probably hard to tell but I don't care much about this. (I was pinged to the talk page originally) It's wrong, but so are a lot of things. But to explain my vehemence, I went to high school in France, where they grade you out of 10 and take off a point every time you omit an accent aigu, so certain things are kind of hard-wired for me at this point.

I don't think it is a loanword, or Wikipedia would know what it means. But let's ask some other people. By the way, since I think you know more about Algeria than I do, am I in fact correct in thinking that it is not an ethnicity? Elinruby (talk) 19:02, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I will go ahead and post here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics#Requests_for_attention Kinda swamped so I would prefer not to compile a list of editors to ping. Feel free to do that if you want to as long as it's a neutral list, and I think I trust you on that. I plan to just say that issues in the RfM include the definition of "name" vs. "noun" and "what is a loanword?" Seem fair? Elinruby (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

already listed at the Algeria, History and Ethnic groups Wikiprojects. Do not see a place to ask for an opinion about the MoS aspects of this without going full RfC, which does not seem appropriate or like something I really care enough about this to do. Going back to sorting out the Brazilian justice system and the many names of Mohammed ben Othman now. Incidentally, I have not been pinging you at Regency of Algiers because I figure you know it is there, but your input is welcome there. Elinruby (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I know what you mean by the French schools and their general approach to education. I have no idea what happened in that discussion, but there appears to be some misunderstanding between you and the other editor. While I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that "chair" is the common name given to the thing we sit on, the chosen example doesn't help with the clarification of what constitutes a proper name and might be responsible for the confusion. A better example, at least in my view, would be to use a term that you mentioned in the discussion: "settler" is a noun that refers to a class of settlers, making it a common noun, while "Pied-Noir" is a noun that refers to a specific instance of the "settler" class, which would make it a proper noun or proper name if you wish (the two are often used interchangeably). I also believe that it's a loanword (just like Vinaigrette) for which we have a dedicated article.

oh ;) Elinruby (talk) 16

28, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Whether the Pieds-Noirs constitute an ethnic group or not very much depends on whom you ask: their age, where they live, etc., all play a crucial part in how they see themselves. The Pied-Noirs who moved to the South of France and Spain, finding strength in numbers, tend to be more attached to their shared heritage than those who moved up north and had to face the stigmatization alone.

That said, thank you for advertising the discussion and I'll make sure to do the same if I can think of another venue. Best, M.Bitton (talk) 14:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

I am neutral about "loanword" but my impression is that to qualify for that, the word(s) should be in common usage in English. But that is why I thought of asking linguistics people. I agree that the discussion needs a definition of the term -- ie should it be the the official definition or the one in common use today. Per commonname I think the latter but reasonable minds may differ. The French article has a whole section on this.

The other editor as I see it 1) doesn't listen well and 2) conflates "noun" and "name". For example he "explained" that I was wrong by sending me a wikilink to "proper name" -- which was a redirect to "proper noun", which he was "explaining" was wrong. The "name of a thing" is usually a "common noun" in grammar, in other words "a vinaigrette", whereas Kraft vinaigrette is a freaking name, lol. I don't think he realizes that yet. But clearly the discussion was going nowhere and let's face it, most English speakers have the same issue. Hopefully with that problem out of the way, progress can be made, and if it took me out too oh well. I didn't ask to be in this thing anyway and I really really really need to get the Regency article out of my hair. Hope the above is useful -- Let me know if I am telling you stuff you already know. I'm looking at all the Jewish refugees under the Regency and the origins of the corsairs, is all It was by no means a monolith of specifically French culture and I doubt ~130 years changed that. Elinruby (talk) 15:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

aha all of my other notifications are about this. I hadn't seem that when I wrote the above. I am unsubscribing now. I think you are making the same mistake he did, but ok. I like you anyway ;) Going back to the many names of Mohammed ben Othman. Elinruby (talk) 15:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)o go full

Ha ha ha (I'm just playing devil's advocate). Unsubscribing after dumping me into the middle of something that you didn't want to be part of doesn't sound very fair to me. I think I'll start pinging you from there. (￣ー￣) M.Bitton (talk) 16:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

hahahaha I said yeah well what am I supposed to do? I got pinged there myself and went to look at MoS. When I came back it was a full-scale RM with all of the usual suspects. I got out just in time. Watch, this is going to go full Arbcom if you don't watch out. You think I am joking? I already said I don't want to die on this hill. Elinruby (talk) 17:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby: I got out just in time No you didn't. M.Bitton (talk) 23:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I said yeah well what am I supposed to do? I told the other guy I would shut up if he did. He is back so I am too. Hopefully the pings will help. Seriously, how do you get ethnic group? I can be convinced. The other guy however thinks the mere fact that he says a thing is supposed to be enough ;) Elinruby (talk) 23:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Why do you feel obliged to reply to them and why don't you simply ask them to substantiate the claims? M.Bitton (talk) 23:49, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

since he has you trying to do that, and I would rather not feud with you especially since I already owe you an apology from way back when? He keeps pointing to that one section of MoS Elinruby (talk) 01:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

You lost me. What do you mean by they have me trying to do that? What exactly am I doing that I shouldn't? M.Bitton (talk) 13:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought I answered this. Must not have hit publish. There is a lot going on. It is not up to me to tell you what you "should" be doing, although I do think that PJ guy is mistaken. If you will accept friendly information from me, however, that McCandlish guy apparently wrote alking more thalf the Manual of Style, Or so I hear. FYI. Elinruby (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I still don't understand what you meant by they "they have me trying to do that" and now that you mentioned McCandlish, I'm even more confused. M.Bitton (talk) 14:21, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

so I can see this when I switch to my phone shortly. All it means is that both you and PJ say it's an ethnic group. You are talking more than he is. I do not want to argue with you. Since McCandlish is saying something somewhat different (on a different basis) I am just saying, as someone who wishes you well, that he is considered an authority on MoS. In case you did not know that and were planning to argue with him about it. Not telling you you shouldn't, if that is really what you want to do, just that it might not be a good idea, I do have a few sources, btw, regarding our last conversation, but I am up to my armpits in something else. Can that wait? Elinruby (talk) 14:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)ll both

As far as I can tell, McCandlish is saying more or less the same thing as they're still arguing that it should be capitalized while citing's worth i the same MOS that was mentioned by PE. Obviously, I will argue if I don't agree with an opinion (like them not considering that something that appears in its original foreign form in the target language is not a loan), this is what discussions are for. Of course it can wait. M.Bitton (talk) 14:51, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Your call. At least you needn't be blindsided now. But I think he is saying Pied noir vs Pied Noir, and I am trying to decide if it is worth engaging with the idea that French speakers will be offended by French capitalization. Probably not. I am just now, two months into this, being told that the Regency had what amounts to a constitution. Hmm. Gotta go now while Nourerrahmane and I are still both online. Elinruby (talk) 15:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Pied-noir or Pied-Noir is more or less the same thing as far as the argument for capitalization is concerned (that's why I ignored it), what's important is that we agree on the fact that it's an ethnonym. M.Bitton (talk) 16:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Editor experience invitation

Hi M.Bitton. I'm looking for experienced editors to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Ngrams

Hi. Re this comment at Talk:Pied-Noir, actually ngrams does distinguish parts of speech. Remind me later and I’ll point you to some examples; mobile now and too difficult. Mathglot (talk) 07:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)