Wikipedia talk:Twinkle

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Errant notifying IP addresses[edit]

I recently nominated a category for renaming, and Twinkle dutifully notified the category creator, which was an IP address...that created the category in 2005. The chance of that message reaching the actual creator is somewhere between negligible and negative. Accordingly, I'd propose that Twinkle disable notices to IP addresses when the relevant action was in the distant past. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 17:27, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One could argue that any creator that created a page in 2005 is likely to either not care or not be around. Primefac (talk) 08:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably, but for registered users no harm is done such as would justify the effort to modify the code to create this exception. It's different an IP article creator where the next person to arrive with that IP address won't know what it's about. For IPs, it isn't clear to me that a warning is usually worthwhile even a month later, though there are unregistered users with static IPs. Largoplazo (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the current system of always notifying whoever created the first revision of a page, even if they did it decades ago, is acceptable. It's simple code, a simple workflow, maximizes the chances of notifying the creator, and minimizes complaints about not notifying the creator. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:27, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feature request: Do not display username in ES if "offensive username" is ticked[edit]

Recommend using a default string like "Adding [Redacted Offensive Username]" verbatim in ES. It just creates something that will need to be revdel'd after since there's no way to uncheck it after, OR give us a checkbox to optionally redact the username from the ES if offensive username is checked. DarmaniLink (talk) 05:25, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is "es" edit summary? What Twinkle module is "offensive username" in? ARV->UAA? –Novem Linguae (talk) 15:39, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it's in twinklearv ::aivPage.setEditSummary() and ::uaaPage.setEditSummary(). I'd also like this, along with wider adoption of this practice, however, I should point out that the edit will still probably need to be rev-deleted due to its content. Still, it'll be one less redacted edit summary for the reporting user, and probably one less combination of tickboxes for the admin to deal with. -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:12, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, FYI I just made a substantial but non-breaking change to Template:Db-draft-deleted as explained at Template_talk:Db-notice#Rewording_notification_about_G13_deletions. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 19:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clayoquot. Any changes needed to Twinkle? Did you change any template names, parameter names, etc? If you just changed template prose, probably doesn't affect Twinkle :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:35, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only changed parameter prose. Will the change automatically be picked up by Twinkle? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 23:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think so. I think Twinkle just does {{subst:Db-draft-deleted}}. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:10, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. Looks like it's working, see https://www.qudswiki.org/?query=User_talk:ZS_Khumalo#Your_draft_article,_Draft:S.J._Ncongwane. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 01:47, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of rcat tagging menu for category redirects[edit]

Is it possible for the redirect tagging funtionality in Twinkle to be deactivated for category soft-redirects (e.g. Category:Angus and Julia Stone)? Per WP:RCAT § When to categorize a redirect, soft redirects shouldn't be categorised with rcats - the only exception for categories being {{R category with possibilities}}.

Let me know if there are any queries. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten[meow] 02:44, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are all categories soft redirects instead of regular redirects? (I seem to remember that they are, but I could be wrong.) If they are, can we just turn off the tag module completely for categories? –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:55, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that's my understanding also, per WP:CATRED. The tag module already seems to be disabled for normal (non-redirected) categories, so - as far as I can see - I think it would be okay to disable it for category soft redirects as well. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten[meow] 03:04, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CSD: Do not send notifications of speedy deletions to creators of user talk pages that are not the user in question[edit]

Recently, I CSD'd a talk page and a user who first templated the vandal in question got a template on their talk page. To avoid from needlessly spamming other peoples user pages and have the template blame them for the vandalism of bad actors on their own talk page, do as the title says. DarmaniLink (talk) 08:15, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DarmaniLink nominated a user talk page for U5 deletion (which was an invalid action in the first place as it was a just a copyvio situation, but irrelevant to this post), so the creator of that user talk page got a notification. Technically TW is doing exactly what it should be doing, and I question whether it makes sense to change that. First, user talk pages are very rarely CSD candidates, and second if you are nominating a user talk page for deletion (under a valid CSD criteria) chances are good whoever created that page should know about it.
In other words, if User A creates the user talk page of User B with a vandal/copyright post that should be deleted, they should probably get a notice. If User C just happens to make a vandal/copyright post on their own talk page, I do agree the creator of that page shouldn't get a notice, but that page also shouldn't be nominated in the first place. Primefac (talk) 13:02, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, i got a filter hit and saw he uploaded the entire script for the mario movie to his own userpage and assumed he was using it like a pastebin DarmaniLink (talk) 18:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bad assumption, just a better case for {{revdel}} than deletion. Primefac (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notification opt-outs[edit]

I recently came across this thread from 2021, which seemed to have support for the idea of a talk-page category (or similar) that would opt users out of receiving Twinkle notifications (e.g. for XfD discussions); which could be included within the {{Deceased Wikipedian}} & {{Not around}} templates. As the pull request linked from that thread was closed as stale, and I can't find a relevant issue on GitHub, I wondered if anyone had any information on the current status of such a feature.

All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten[meow] 03:23, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One thing to consider is that sometimes people follow a deceased person's talk page to catch these types of notices. They then work to improve the content in that user's memory. I've found this with several different users when I've nominated old drafts for G13 deletion. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hey man im josh: Fair point - thanks for mentioning that,/gen it hadn't occurred to me. I'm not so sure now that this would be a good feature. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten[meow] 03:44, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: Add "suboptimal" Welcome templates[edit]

Every so often, I'm having to revert a new user's (or IP user's) apparent good faith efforts that have lots of problems, but none of the "problem" Welcome templates that Twinkle provides cover this scenario sufficiently. So, I have to use {{Welcome-suboptimal}} or {{Welcome-anon-suboptimal}} manually outside of Twinkle. Could these be added to the Twinkle selection list? Stefen Towers among the rest! GabGruntwerk 19:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like {{Welcome-suboptimal}} has about 1000 transclusions. Looks good to me. Will create a ticket. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Stefen Towers among the rest! GabGruntwerk 20:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Translation request[edit]

The instructions said to notify Twinkle if there were "breaking changes" but there weren't so I didn't. But I notice that although direct transclusions of {{Translation request}} (ex-{{Needtrans}}) at WP:PNT are working, most transclusions are not, and I presume those come from Twinkle. The edit in question is rev. 1209066449. Note that there are a couple of edits following that one; they affect solely the presentation of the template page itself, generating the top-of-page example you see there.

P.S., Maybe that wording about "breaking changes" should be modified, because I know what that term means and would have notified Twinkle earlier had the change fit that category, but it does not: new functionality which is fully backward-compatible is not breaking. Unless the problem lies elsewhere, such as in the redirect? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 03:12, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot. Thanks for the report. Would you be able to link a broken transclusion diff that Twinkle placed, and then also a diff of someone fixing it? That would help me figure out what code changes are needed here. Diffs from WP:PNT preferrably, rather than from Template:Translation request. Thank you very much. –Novem Linguae (talk) 06:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not broken, in the sense of producing nonsense, just producing the old, valid output that it always used to. Nothing wrong with it, and not harmful in any way, just lacking some useful, new functionality. And since it is (presumably) substed and doesn't leave a hidden text trace of who produced it, I can't be sure that it is even Twinkle at all responsible for it; I just assumed so, since some source continues to produce the old-format output, so what else could it be? (Could even be someone directly typing text onto the page that looks like template output; unlikely, but not impossible.) While looking around for an example for you just now, I realized that the new template version doesn't have proper subst-protection, so let me go fix the Template so you have clean output to compare with. But n the meantime here are a few links that I presume are Twinkle, in case you want to look at these: § Cerveza Cristal (Chile), § Heiligenhoven Castle. I'll get back to you soon when the template is ready. Mathglot (talk) 06:36, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, won't be quite as quick as I thought. Subst-protection in Template:Translation request actually seems to be okay as is, at least at first glance, so the problem likely lies in one of the newly invoked templates that was not used before. There are two such: {{ISO 639 name}}, which appears to be properly subst-protected , and {{Sitelink}}, which is not. So to get {{Translation request}} to work, I'll have to convert Sitelink to be substable, and it's not one I've worked on before. In principle it should be mechanical and mostly about making sure I don't break anything; but there are a lot options and there is no sandbox or testcases. I may have to ask for help with that one. I'll get back to you on this. Adding Ponor, who is familiar with {{Sitelink}} and may be able to convert it more easily and quickly than I could. Mathglot (talk) 06:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Twinkle edits can be easily identified because it uses an edit tag. So Cerveza Cristal (Chile) was indeed placed by Twinkle (diff). OK, so now we have the first diff. Is there anything wrong with this diff that needs fixing? The code Twinkle is using to place that diff is
'{{subst:duflu|pg=' + Morebits.pageNameNorm + '|Language=' + (lang || 'uncertain') + '|Comments=' + reason.trim() + '}} ~~~~'
The other possible code that Twinkle uses on that page is
'{{subst:needtrans|pg=' + Morebits.pageNameNorm + '|Language=' + (lang || 'uncertain') + '|Comments=' + reason.trim() + '}} ~~~~'
Novem Linguae (talk) 07:39, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, that is indeed helpful. Here is the unsubsted output showing the new output for Needtrans (now renamed to {{Translation request}}):
Two examples

1. {{Needtrans |pg=Cerveza Cristal |language=Spanish |comments=Further remarks.}}

Cerveza Cristal

The original article, Cerveza Cristal (Chile), is in Spanish. Further remarks.


2. {{Needtrans |pg=Heiligenhoven Castle |language=German|comments= }}

Heiligenhoven Castle

The original article, Schloss Heiligenhoven, is in German.

What I don't quite understand, is why Twinkle doesn't already produce the right output, as it appears to be just generating the code for a call to Needtrans, and since the new output you see above doesn't depend on any new parameters but is derived directly from existing params and Wikidata, I don't quite see why Twinkle would produce different output in that case. (Note that the first article appears to have been renamed to Cerveza Cristal at en-wiki.) This doesn't obviate the need to subst-protect {{Sitelink}}, but it does raise a new question of why Twinkle isn't already picking up the new format. Or perhaps, the subst issue blocks it, somehow? Mathglot (talk) 08:19, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I'm still a bit unclear about what the bug is. A diff of the wrong Twinkle output, and a diff fixing it, would be helpful. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you induce Twinkle to add two examples below, one for |pg=Cerveza Cristal |language=Spanish |comments=Further remarks., and one for |pg=Heiligenhoven Castle |language=German ? Mathglot (talk) 08:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pasting the below into Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English
{{subst:needtrans|pg=Cerveza Cristal |language=Spanish |comments=Further remarks.}} ~~~~

{{subst:needtrans|pg=Heiligenhoven Castle |language=German}} ~~~~
Renders this. Is that what you need?
If you need me to do it in Twinkle, I can do it on https://test.wikipedia.org/. But I suspect it will be exactly the same, so starting with this. –Novem Linguae (talk) 09:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that produced exactly the correct result—although unsubsted, for reasons previously discussed—but note that the rendered-page output is exactly like the collapsed examples above. So the mystery has shifted from the earlier, 'why isn't Twinkle picking up the latest changes?' (answer: it is picking them up), to: 'Why did the two examples cited end up without the new functionality of linked foreign page at WP:PNT when placed earlier by users using {{Needtrans}}?' I don't know the answer to that new mystery, but we don't have to resolve that, because it appears to be working now.
As an aside: I just went back to WP:PNT and noticed that someone just added § Potato production in France using {{Dual fluency request}} (per the hidden comment you added only hours before—great timing; thanks for that!) and is tagged Twinkle in history, that isn't invoking the new functionality, either. That is understandable, as {{Duflu}} is its own template (formerly merged to needtrans then unmerged, for reasons which need not concern us here). {{Duflu}} should have similar functionality added as happened here, and once the subst issue is clarified, I'll add it, or leave a Talk message about it.
I apologize that this got into the weeds a bit and has been confusing and lengthier than I expected. The bottom line is this: we still need to make {{Sitelink}} substable to get {{Needtrans}} up to par (nothing to do with Twinkle) and I doubt you will have to change anything in Twinkle at all for this template, it will just work. Same thing for {{Duflu}} once it is updated to match. I think the right stance now for Twinkle folks regarding these two, is "watchful waiting". It bears monitoring, but I don't expect you'll have to do anything at all to be compatible and in sync. Mathglot (talk) 21:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. Glad you liked the hidden comment I added to duflu. I also wrote a Twinkle patch that will make this area of Twinkle code more readable the next time I have to look at it. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:16, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like Ponor is not around, so I went ahead and added subst protection to {{Sitelink}}. Now, substing {{Needtrans}} looks okay, via this brief live test in WP:PNT. This should complete this upgrade, and I don't expect any further changes will be required at Twinkle, but please watch with one eye for a little while. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 02:34, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COI template[edit]

Documentation for {{COI}} says (formatting per original):

Like the other neutrality-related tags, if you place this tag, you should promptly start a discussion on the article's talk page to explain what is non-neutral about the article. If you do not start a discussion, any editor will be justified in removing the tag without warning.

[...]

Do not apply this tag simply because you suspect COI editing, or because there is or was a COI editor.

Can Twinkle be made to notify users of these terms, or at least to nudge them to comment on the talk page immediately after applying the template? There may be other templates with similar conditions, so a generic fix might be best. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Dual fluency request[edit]

 Courtesy link: Template:Dual fluency request

Non-breaking changes have been made to {{Dual fluency request}} to parallel similar changes to {{Translation request}} as discussed above at § Template:Translation request. I understand "non-breaking" as meaning that nothing will go wrong if you make no changes at the Twinkle end; however, the new version is more powerful, as it retrieves the foreign-language article automatically via Wikidata linkage. Parameter |orig= was formerly required in order to provide a link to the foreign article, but now it is no longer required and its use is discouraged. The |orig= parameter is still available (not deprecated) and if used, will override the Wikidata page link with whatever the user provides as the param value, so it exists solely as an override and to maintain backwards compatibility. If automatic processes generate the transclusion, then probably all you have to do is drop the use of parameter |orig=; everything else can remain the same; however nothing will break if you leave everything as is. If you do make the change, the result will be improved output at WP:PNT. Mathglot (talk) 01:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]