Talk:Levantine Arabic

Aleppo dialect

Im not sure if my edit was reverted per accident. Anyway, ill do it here. The source used to support a Mesopotamian influence on the dialect of Aleppo does not state this unless Im using it wrong. Can anyone quote directly from it to support that claim? Otherwise it is an non supported claim that should be deleted. Attar-Aram syria (talk) 10:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Attar-Aram syria. Sorry for reverting your edit without explaining my reasoning. The source says: "Aleppo dialect shows Mesopotamian (North Syrian) influence." a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 12:42, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I see. I cant read this part in it but this is probably because Im not familiar with the website and dont know how to use it or read the full text. Anyway, Im from Aleppo so reading this part made me curious. I made my own research and apparently the dialect of Aleppo do indeed have some similarities with Mesopotamian and Anatolian but its not clear whether this is due to Mesopotamian influence or simply a parallel development from a common ancestor. I think it is helpful to give an example of the Mesopotamian features in the dialect of Aleppo, maybe in a note or something. If you have the time to do that I will not do it myself but I can maybe provide the sources I found (since you brought the article to its excellent current form and it would be better to write new additions in your words to keep the style as it is).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi. Unfortunately the source (Ethnologue) doesn't give more details. You probably can't see anything because you don't have a subscription. It's quite expensive... If you live in a low & middle-income country (such as Syria) you can get a free access: https://www.ethnologue.com/pricing/ Otherwise, you can apply to the data contributor program: https://cam.ethnologue.com/contributor/apply

In any case, if you have reliable sources, feel free to add them directly. (at least here?) There's no need to keep "my" style :) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 13:18, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah a subscription. Thats why. Now, I live in NL and Im not really big on linguistic... barely passed my Ancient Greek courses. So I wont be getting a subscription but thanks for the clarification.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 13:26, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Subtitled video: Reviewing Levantine text

I made Levantine Arabic subtitles for the video on this page. I barely ever read Levantine Arabic, so I'd love if someone could review the spelling and grammar of the subtitles:

1 00:00:02,826 --> 00:00:09,760 وهل شعب ل كتير بيشبه اللبنانية، يعني، بيشبه لبنان بمحبته للحياة، بالجمال.

2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,120 إنتو ناس حلوين، وهيدا الشي ما من شوفو دايمًا.

3 00:00:14,076 --> 00:00:19,480 المغاربة والمغرب كتير بيشبه لبنان بشكل الحياة إلّي هوّ في،

4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,160 فأنا حسي حالي ببيتي، وهيدا الشي بيفرّحني.

5 00:00:22,438 --> 00:00:28,200 أول شي، نوع الموسيئى المغربيّة هيّ أصلًا بتعجبني، والفَنّانين كلن

6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,240 وسعي الفنانين المغاربي إنون يروحو ع العالامية.

7 00:00:32,899 --> 00:00:34,960 وإنتو ئادرين توصلو للعالمية.

8 00:00:35,958 --> 00:00:41,800 وهيدا التعاون الئريب رح تحبو، إن ٱللَّٰه راد، بين أنا والفنان المغربي.

9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:42,840 إنتِ محتالة.

10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,720 بنتبه ع بشرتي كتير. هيدا الأهم. لأنُ إذا كانِت بشرتك حلوة،

11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,960 [بالإنكليزي] شو ما بطحطي ع بشرتك بلَمِع.

12 00:00:50,041 --> 00:00:51,200 [باللبنان] إذا لأ، ما بِبَيِّن.

13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,480 "شتركو"

User:FunLater 22:06, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @FunLater, thanks a lot for taking this initiative! I've just asked a few native speakers I know to review it and I'll let you know. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 07:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much. FunLater (talk) 12:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @FunLater, I was told:

"there are a few spelling choices that, while it’s not possible to say they’re incorrect as there is no standard spelling system, nonetheless I would recommend a different spelling

line 2, I’d spell it منشوفو as one word rather than two (من شوفو)

line 3 last word I’d spell it as فيه because here it means “in it”

line 4 second word I’d spell it حاسة

line 5 personally I’d spell it الموسيقى just to be consistent with MSA and other dialects

line 6 last word I’d spell it العالمية

line 7 I’d spell it قادرين again for the same reason as in line 5

there are a few spelling choices that, while it’s not possible to say they’re incorrect as there is no standard spelling system, nonetheless I would recommend a different spelling

oh and line 8 I’d spell it القريب

a lot of my spelling choices are “classicizing” I do realize, but it also helps facilitate cross-dialect recognition as well"

So I assume it's a matter of personal preferences and you can keep your subtitles or choose the above suggestions. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:07, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, both of you. I applied all changes and added the subtitles in the Arabic slot, since there isn't one for Levantine.

Make sure to thank them and let them know that they can edit the subtitles here if they want to change anything: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/TimedText:Maya_Diab_interview_in_Morocco_-_Oct_28,_2017.webm.ar.srt FunLater (talk) 13:33, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I think the language code should be 'apc' instead of 'ar' if possible. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:32, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

The usual dropdown for selecting languages doesn't show Levantine. I tried manually putting the code as apc, but it's not showing in the video player, so I asked at Commons' helpdesk. FunLater (talk) 19:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

@FunLater Thanks! a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Levantine Arabic Wikipedia as a section

Hello @A455bcd9!

First of all, thank you for everything you did to help make this article a featured article. I truly appreciate all your efforts, and it is a very well-written piece!

Meanwhile, I need to say that I disagree with your decision to revert my last edits, so would like to have a discussion, if possible. My argument is:

• Meta can be considered a reliable source for the information that was included in the subsection: The text says that the project is determined to be eligible by the Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee. Even if you consider the dynamic page to be unreliable (since it can be vandalized) I can link to that particular edit or the static page as a reference, which cannot be altered, and is a perfectly reliable source for the statement being made WP:RAP. Also we can add the language committee's mailing list discussions, which would provide an additional reliable sourcing. The mailing list is open to the public.

Overall, I believe the content has encyclopedic value since the Wikimedia Foundation is a notable entity and the LC is representing the WMF here. I would appreciate it if you could reconsider. @FunLater: Curious about your opinion on this matter as well, if you have time. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 08:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Verifiability is not a problem here, but a Wikipedia edition is rarely if ever significant enough to discuss in the article about a language. Nardog (talk) 09:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Nardog Indeed. We can only add content backed by reliable sources. So if for instance a reputable newspaper talks about the efforts around creating a Levantine Wikipedia, then we could mention it and it would be very interesting. But we don't have that. Unfortunately. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 09:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed what? I just said verifiability isn't a problem here. We could totally discuss the Wikipedia without a reliable source, as far as is allowed by WP:ABOUTSELF. I just don't find it pertinent to the subject, and that's a matter within editorial discretion. Nardog (talk) 10:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Nardog We cannot use Wikimedia projects as a source per WP:CIRCULAR. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 10:34, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

"An exception is allowed when Wikipedia itself is being discussed in the article." Nardog (talk) 11:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

You're right, sorry. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 11:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I think verifiability-wise the section is/was okay, but the wiki is unfortunately not (yet) significant enough to warrant its own section. FunLater (talk) 11:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Even Scots' article doesn't mention its wiki version, despite The Incident. FunLater (talk) 11:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. Nardog (talk) 11:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

"Levantine speakers in Turkey use the Latin-based Turkish alphabet."

Is there a reason to not add the Turkish alphabet to the infobox? FunLater (talk) 23:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary. We have "Latin script", which encompasses all Latin-based alphabets, including the Turkish alphabet. Similarly, Levantine speakers (esp. in Lebanon) might use the French é or French based-spellings (ch instead of sh for instance) but we don't list "French alphabet" in "Writing system". a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 11:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, cool. :) FunLater (talk) 11:55, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Recent reversion of change from "Arabian" to "North Arabian"

@A455bcd9: While the source only says "Arabian", other sources referencing the same group refer to it as "North Arabian" to avoid ambiguity with Old and Modern South Arabian. Listing it as merely "Arabian" only creates ambiguity. Arctic Circle System (talk) 21:43, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

The source says Arabian, so we write Arabian. Unless we have a better reliable source for the whole classification tree? (and not just for "Arabian", we don't do a patchwork of RS). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 08:26, 18 March 2024 (UTC)