Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Assyrian Academic Society

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear consensus in favor of keeping the article, sustained by the consideration that the existing and added sources are enough to support inclusion of a topic that is obscure but addresses a historically significant population. BD2412 T 02:11, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Assyrian Academic Society[edit]

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Assyrian Academic Society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Fails WP:NORG as there is no significant coverage in reliable, independent sources found. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. (t · c) buidhe 06:24, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • weak keep it seems like they published a Journal of Assyrian Academic Studies for a while, which I think adds to notability. Since this is an academic society, independent sources are not really required and their lack is no reason to delete the article. --hroest 21:08, 8 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hannes Röst, First, WP:NOTINHERITED, so the existence of that journal is irrelevant (also, it does not appear to meet WP:NJOURNAL. And which, pray tell, policy tells us that "Since this is an academic society, independent sources are not really required"? I'd be very interested in seeing it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:17, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • There is a general agreement in WP:NPROF for academics (which I extended here for academic societies) that independent sources are not required, this especially after the Donna Strickland disaster. Often academic societies do not have strong coverage in popular media, however that by itself does not make them non-notable (they can of course still be non-notable). I was just point out this fact, however of course that does not make every society notable without question. --hroest 15:10, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The article was in need of improvement, so I added some referenced content. The organization in question is notable enough to have an article, so I am voting against deletion. Sorabino (talk) 05:08, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The sources you cite (such as letter from the association's president[1]) are not independent from the society, and do not count for notability, except perhaps the Khoshaba & Benjamin source which appears to be a passing mention. Academic organizations are not exempt from notability requirements. (t · c) buidhe 05:24, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As you can see, additional referenced content was recently added, on AAS programs and activities related to cooperation with USA institutions and officials in improving minority rights of Assyrians in Iraq. Sorabino (talk) 06:37, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. I am relatively sympathetic to the argument that NORG needs to be more inclusive of NGOs and scholarly institutions, but I'd like to see at least a single sentence in an independent, reliable source that says this NGOs has been significant for something. All I see is that it exists, publishes a journal, maybe few books and so on. That's, I am afraid, 'business as usual'. WP:NOTACATALOGUE, NOTYELLOWPAGES, etc. If nobody out there bothered to publish a single sentence about this organization, what makes it encyclopedic? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:22, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fortunately, there are such references in the article, so there is no need for deletion. Good will is needed, based on fair assessments of the content. Sorabino (talk) 09:50, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They are listed in the article, I added them myself. Sorabino (talk) 03:07, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Piotrus, as stated above, I added some referenced content, you can see my edits in the edit history. As a possible alternative to complete deletion of content, would you support a merger of the content on AAS (as a USA based Assyrian cultural organization) in the "Culture" section of the article on Assyrian Americans, or you are still in favor of complete deletion? Sorabino (talk) 03:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Piotrus, if I understand you correctly, you are not supporting complete deletion of the content on AAS, and would accept its merger as a subsection in the "Culture" section of the Assyrian Americans article, also leaving a redirect to that location? Sorabino (talk) 03:40, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Piotrus, my first preferred option is still to keep the article. I added some new referenced content. Also, there are various sources reporting on cooperation between AAS and some specialized UN organizations, with support of some the USA government. This organization is notable enough to have its own article. Lets see what would be the outcome of this process. So far, I do not see any real support for the proposed deletion. Sorabino (talk) 05:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I think the references are good enough. As a minority ethnic group, these types of pages should be a little less restricted in my opinion than organizations that cater to larger populations. Assyrians are one of the oldest ethnicities of the world still around, and are scattered around in the Middle East, mostly Iraq and Iran. Expertwikiguy (talk) 10:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins! 11:34, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Sorabino (talk) 13:18, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. Like Piotrus I am sympathetic to minority organizations, but in the end we need more than in-passing mentions to build an article from. I sampled several of the independent sources and none went past the in-passing. I also tried to find a homepage for this organization, but failed to find one, so we can't even source non-controversial info to their own website (apart from some web-archived stuff). The last post on their Facebook page dates back to 2010. Unless some more "meaty" sources can be found, I don't see how we can make an article here. --Randykitty (talk) 16:08, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Randykitty, thank you for raising those questions; the answers are provided in recent improvements of this article. Please, would you take another look? The traditional role of AAS as an academic and minority organization of Assyrian Americans is today (since 2019) performed by the "Assyrian Studies Association" (ASA). Since this article contains sourced information that is very relevant for the culture of Assyrian Americans in general, would you support any other solution, other that complete deletion? Sorabino (talk) 03:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. as part of our attempts at covering the entire world. It's appropriate that we make some degree of wider interpretation for less covered areas and aspects. DGG ( talk ) 05:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Appears to satisfy WP:GNG based on the references in the article.4meter4 (talk) 01:02, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep votes claiming this passes gng don’t discuss the sourcing and its asserted they are deficient. Consensus would be easier to understand with a source analysis of what we have.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 23:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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